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and there's war weariness in america but what it's level of responsibility that the united states feels should any of these things go south, in terms of what we've tried to create in terms of stable governments? >> i think what you saw in the debates that was governor romney and president obama both understand the american people are sick and tired of these wars. they are sorry they ever heard of the place called the middle east. they just want out. and so the question is how do you, to the degree you can, shape the environment after you get out? and i think that's what all of this talk about 2014 in afghanistan is, to focus the minds of afghan leaders. we are not going to be around. and i actually think iraq has gone better than i expected. so, who knows. afghanistan might too. i'm actually though in the long run, more pessimistic about afghanistan than i am about iraq. >> start by why do you think iraq has gone better than expected and then michael will talk about where you think there's gaps in this path's approach to t. >> i thought that iraq would unravel after the americans left.
in the united states. >> and what government should do to help people, particularly in a distressed economy, what the limits of that are before you start infringing on personal freedom. >> that's exactly right. this is a huge, huge question that informs almost every aspect of the nation's history and every decade has an example of it, but we've got to go back and find the balance, i think, in the discussion and history is a good ally, we do not see government as all bad and do not see it as all good. in that tension and balance has been the most spectacular history our government has been a force for good from the emancipation pro clamation and land grant college and homestead act and trans continental railroad and minimum wage and social security and gi bill, interstate highway, man on the moon. this is not a bad track record for something painted as one of the villains of all times. you don't want to give that government a cart blanche, you want to center this activity. that's what we've lost sight of. and the media is responsible too because we like the fight. we like the blood, if it bl
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